The Start Menu

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jebeld17
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The Start Menu

Post by jebeld17 »

Okay, let's talk about the Start Menu.
Today I am not here to present a list of negatives and poke fun at the holes we all know the menu still has, because we all know where the issues lie.
Instead, I have one simple idea that will take a big burden off the ReactOS team that should help the developers and community better allocate the minimal resources we have to more important parts of the ReactOS project:
Collaborate with other open source projects to work on the Start Menu.

There's already a big open-source project out there many of us have heard about called Classic Shell, at http://www.classicshell.net/.
Classic Shell has had a ton of development help over the years and is rated one of Sourceforge's top apps at 4.9/5 stars.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by dizt3mp3r »

I'm not 100% sure but I should imagine that Classic shell doesn't truly integrate deep into Windows, it just sits on top as any other program might do and emulates the old start menu. It would need to replace Windows start menu entirely and I expect that would mean the whole of explorer. There might be some symbiosis when it comes to resources, images &c but that might be it.

I am prepared to be shot down on this - of course.

viewtopic.php?p=109146
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MadWolf
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by MadWolf »

http://www.classicshell.net/faq/
Is Classic Shell open-source?
Versions before 3.9.0 are open-source. The source code can be downloaded from Source Forge.

Starting with version 3.9.0, Classic Shell is no longer open-source. There are couple of reasons for that change.
The initial intent of making Classic Shell open-source was to provide other developers with solutions to common problems - how to build a shell extension, how to create a custom-looking menu, etc. Over time, the code has become more and more complex and is solving more and more narrow problems. Its educational value has diminished substantially. The only thing you can learn from the source code is how to build a very similar software. Which brings me to the second reason - some people have taken the code wholesale and are selling their own copies of the start menu with little to no modification. While this is allowed under the licensing terms, it was against the spirit of my intent.

If you are curious how certain features work, you can ask questions in the forums and I will try to answer. If you have a legitimate need to view the source code (for example you may need to troubleshoot compatibility with your software or you are conducting a security review), contact me and we can work something out.
erkinalp
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by erkinalp »

The right thing would be splitting shell and file manager(there is filebrowser for this purpose, same thing for shell). Explorer would stay for compatibility(views and callbacks only implemented to the least extent possible-main entrypoint dropped to prevent being mistakenly called as a file manager), yet default shell would be custom-built for ReactOS on top of the shell API. More like how XDG folks did. Same thing for notepad. Basic text edit control would stay, yet default plaintext editor would not make use of it.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by dizt3mp3r »

I always hated the manner in which the Windows desktop, file manager, start menu and background manager are all tied in to one process. A failure or hang in one component leads to the whole UI hanging. Killing explorer.exe was often the only solution.

Windows Vista, 8/10 were particularly prone to instability especially when accessing hard media or network shares that had been removed/disconnected.

On previous versions of Windows you could kill explorer.exe, run another shell and interface but still retain the background. Since Win10 the background manager maintains the background image so that when explorer.exe dies, it takes the background with it. Annoying.

Windows 7 64 has been quite stable in respect of not hanging when media is disconnected (in my limited experience) but I still have a widget on my desktop that allows me to kill and restart explorer.exe at will - a big red button, a kill-switch... It is useful at times when explorer doesn't automatically restart.

If the ReactOS desktop was implemented in such a way that the various components still operated together but could be separated allowing replacement individually, I would be a very happy bunny.
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middings
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by middings »

"It's like déjà vu all over again."--Famous quotation attributed to Yogi Berra, American professional baseball player and coach.
jebeld17 wrote:...I have one simple idea... Collaborate with other open source projects to work on the Start Menu.
There's already a big open-source project out there many of us have heard about called Classic Shell...
I wish you had successfully made a search in these forums for the string "Classic shell" before posting your suggestion.
(I admit that phpBB® Forum Software's search feature is difficult to use.)

Such a search returned this still-relevant post from 2014. Z98 addresses your concerns:
In topic '[url=https://www.reactos.org/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=2&p=109153#pr109153]Is Classic Shell able to help out ReactOS?[/url]' Z98 wrote: This has been repeated many times now but apparently people still don't seem to get it.

We have a shell. We have one that's coded against Windows and is known to produce an experience similar to that of 2k3. What we did NOT have was the supporting libraries needed by the shell, supporting libraries that any third party shell would also need. Therefore since we already have a shell, suggesting that we get "help" but using another third party shell is missing the point entirely on what work needs to be done. So no, they aren't of much use to us.
A reworked ReactOS shell (ReactOS Explorer) was stood up in release 0.4.0. This shell is described here. When ReactOS is feature-complete, ReactOS should support all third-party shells and shell extensions compatible with Microsoft Windows Server 2003.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by dizt3mp3r »

I quoted that thread earlier. I'm sure he's got it now.
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middings
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by middings »

I overlooked the link you provided, dizt3mp3r. Sorry.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by dizt3mp3r »

:)

PS. As an aside... I have always noticed (or seemed to notice) that the home version of Windows has been less stable than the pro/ultimate versions. I have had to kill explorer a lot on all my home versions, be it XP, Vista or Win8. That may be just my unlucky experience but has anyone else noticed this?

Win Ultimate 64 has been very stable in my experience as far as the desktop is concerned.
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erkinalp
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by erkinalp »

Intentionally destabilized™ for profit. They can sell pro and server licences that way. Server kernel and userland is the same as pro and home, hence need for some artificial differences. ReactOS will not need any artificial restrictions and EmuandCo is strongly against this as he stated.
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by dizt3mp3r »

Do you really believe that Erkinalp or do you have real info that backs it up? I believe you - I just like more info.
It is my experience too. Anyone else an opinion? I'd like to know if this is real or just my normal paranoia (!).

If it is real then I'm going to add it to my list of reasons for wanting ReactOS.
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middings
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by middings »

I rarely have to kill Explorer. On all my PCs together, I do it about once per year. All my PCs have Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition SP3.
erkinalp
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by erkinalp »

dizt3mp3r wrote:Do you really believe that Erkinalp or do you have real info that backs it up? I believe you - I just like more info.
If it is real then I'm going to add it to my list of reasons for wanting ReactOS.
Yeah, a real thing. Some I/O and process scheduling algorithms are tuned differently according to license as Windows Internals book says.
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jebeld17
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by jebeld17 »

Sorry, I didn't notice it's not open source anymore.
The old version could be forked from the Sourceforge and implemented into ReactOS, though. Why not? The code is already there.
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EmuandCo
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Re: The Start Menu

Post by EmuandCo »

There is no destabilisation on purpose and the differences in I/O and process scheduling algorithms can be set on home, too. The base is completely the same on all versions of Windows XP or whatever (as you said, too.). Only difference is what is shipped with the version, some stuff skipped on Home which is in Pro and Server I don't have to explain I hope. All limitations are artificially, yes, same for RAM limitations, RDP connection limits, etcetc. But these are no reason for a unstable system.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
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